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Welcome to EASY MONEY. I’m Jill the Money Coach. I know what it’s like to push through to white knuckle it to put in the time and get no results. I know what it’s like to wonder what’s the right way, and to constantly worry about doing it all wrong. I’ve learned a whole lot from doing things the hard way. That’s why I help coaches go from doing everything the hard way to making money easy. You want to create your dream life and dream business. That’s all about being free to do what you want. Spend what you want, and build the future you want. And do it all with ease. In this podcast, I bring you Simple Strategies for Success for your business that make money easy. So it’s time for EASY MONEY. Are you ready? Well, then let’s go. 

Hey, welcome back to Easy Money. I’m Jill Wright. And I’m so happy to have you back here for another conversation with a coach. So this summer I decided to have on my podcast, some coaches, and we’re just having conversations about building business about building coaching businesses. And in this week’s episode, you get to eavesdrop on my conversation with Mark Butler, the Money Guy, where we talk shop about building a business. He has such great ideas about what works and what doesn’t. So if you want to raise a successful business, this is a great episode to listen in on. And so just you know, treat after treat after treat on Easy Money podcast this summer, I am just having so much fun having these conversations with various coaches in various niches. And it has been so much fun. And there’s so many more left to come. So be sure you tune in all summer long for more conversations with coaches. So when I was growing up, for the first nine years of my life, I lived out on a country road so not a lot was around our house in the way of treats. And so unless you counted the road rhubarb, my dad grew or the wild black raspberries that we could pick along the side of the road because we lived out in the middle of nowhere. We did have neighbors, but there weren’t many. But if you grew up in a place where they have ice cream trucks summer on Easy Money, podcasts might be a little bit like that, because you just get to, to listen for the new episode to come out and you get a treat each week by you know, getting to listen to the amazing conversations I’m having with coaches. So I mean, at least each week, I feel like the ice cream truck is coming by with another amazing treat with another amazing guest for you. So when you start your coaching business, you’re looking for someone who knows what PayPal and Stripe are somewhat familiar with launches, masterminds, group coaching, retreats, memberships, ebooks, courses, freelancing, and productized services. Good news. That’s Mark Butler. Mark started his first online business in 2004. In the last 16 or so years, he’s made money using a variety of different business models. He’s also collected a whole lot of information through observation of his clients strategies along the way. Mark has a beautiful business conference coming up in September it’s the 20th and 21st in Salt Lake City. And you can learn more about that and sign up at https://letsdothebooks.com/conference/. And he’s going to tell you all about it in our conversation. So just sit back, relax, and enjoy this terrific conversation with this week’s guest, Mark Butler. 

Thank you so much Mark for joining me on my Easy Money Podcast. I’m so excited to have you here. I always love listening to the way you talk about business and you’re a little bit disruptive sometimes which I absolutely love. I love thinking about things in a different way especially when it comes to building a business. So you want to take a few minutes to introduce yourself? I think most of my audience knows you. But for those that don’t.

Yeah, yeah, happy to. My name is Mark Butler. And for about, Oh, almost eight and a half years now I’ve been doing money related things with life coaches. So for a lot of that, that has looked like being the CFO, or the kind of an advisor to life coaches, that a lot of your audience will have heard of businesses that range from, you know, brand new all the way up to 10’s of millions of dollars. So that has looked like me, keeping track of the money for these coaches, and then also advising them on how they use the money in their business. And these days, I’m, I’m doing less of that kind of work, where I actually sit with the business owner and plan out their cash flow and things like that. And I’ve kind of divided my businesses in to two main areas. One is bookkeeping, where we do the we keep track of the money for coaches, we prepare their reports that they need to tax time. And then the other part of my business is just coaching, life coaching, some business coaching, I guess you call it that, but it’s just having conversations with people about what’s going on with them.

Oh, cool. So what are the things what are the some of your favorite things to coach on?

Um, favorite things to coach on? I do, I do like to coach people around their, their experiences with money. And so, also business, but the, I don’t really introduce myself as a business coach, because I don’t really do much in the way of sort of, here’s what you need to do next in your business. More of the coaching I do these days is helping people understand, helping them discover for themselves the relationship between sort of their goals and their happiness.

Yeah, like, yeah. Yeah, that’s a big one.

Yeah. Yeah. So Well, in my experience, especially in the coaching community that you and I have spent a lot of time in, I think that there’s an underlying belief, that kind of goal, achievement is everything. It’s a very result oriented community. And I now have lots of experience, I guess, we’re sneaking up on a decade of experience, working with people who have achieved enormous goals, but there’s no compelling evidence that they’re any happier as a result. And so I do a fair amount of coaching on helping people keep their goals in context and helping them figure out what actually is going to drive their happiness and their satisfaction on a daily basis.

Yeah. Yeah. And then, and how many of those are money goals? The goal achievements that you were talking about?

In my case, pretty much all of them all the goals that I tend to interact with people are our money goals, because that’s how I’ve known in the community. And yeah, I’m talking about me as the Money Guy. And yeah, which is, which is totally fine. Yeah, I haven’t I haven’t chosen that label. But it’s, it’s it’s giving people a reason to to talk with me. And so the goals that I’m typically talking about are the goals that people have set with their business and what their money.

Yeah, so I guess I mean, what I’m hearing is, you know, if goal achievement is the thing that makes you happy, and your goals are our money oriented, then that idea is that more money equals more happy.

Yeah, that’s, that’s what I observe is that people are operating and operating under the assumption that there will be more happiness, peace, contentment, when there’s more money, and then they do end up being surprised when they have more money and there isn’t necessarily more happiness, peace or contentment, which sounds and is very cliche. But it’s, it catches people in our little corner of the world off guard, because that message has been communicated. Although not overtly, always. I think it’s been communicated so clearly. Yeah. So there’s an irony in a, you know, in a community where the idea that feelings come from thoughts, and that feelings are the fundamental experience of existence. There’s an irony in promoting that idea and simultaneously talking constantly about money and having more of it, making more of it, having more of it. Yeah. Because in in the, in the approach to the world that we’re accustomed to, in this coaching community where the idea of thoughts creating feelings is promoted. Something like money would be neutral. It would be called neutral, it would be it would be described as a neutral thing that you can think anything you want about and feel any way you want to feel. But the way it’s talked about, it’s talked about as being very much not neutral. Yeah. And there’s a, I think there’s a basic disconnect there that I end up coaching on a lot.

Yeah. Yeah, I agree. Yeah, I mean, that’s a disconnect that I end up coaching on a lot, too. So I mean, it’s an interesting kind of topic to talk about. And I mean, I think a lot of people do have sort of this disconnect. I think there’s, there’s some gold trauma, for sure. There’s some money trauma, for sure. That stems from a lot of, you know, could stem from a lot of different places. But then there’s all also this sense that, you know, if I reach my goals, if I do all of this hard work, if I do all this hustle, if I do all the things that I’m supposed to do air quotes, then I will reach my goal. And if I reach my goal, then I won’t be subject to disappointment or failure, I will feel successful, I will feel proud, I will feel significant whatever your flavor of, of positive and negative emotions are. But the way that I like to think about goals is that they’re really, I get to go after what I want. And I get to decide what that’s going to mean to me. But I also get to hold space, I get to hold space for the possibility that I’ll achieve those goals, I get to hold space for the outreach for the possibility that I won’t achieve those goals. I get to, you know, hold space for any emotion I want to feel about that. But the way that I look at goals, as goals are there to make me think at all, or to give me an opportunity to give me a tool or vehicle to think at a higher level. And that’s the way that I look at goals. It’s like I can set these huge goals without making, achieving or not achieving means something about me, I can be happy about it. I can be, I can feel neutral about it. I can feel any way I want. But it’s just this vehicle for getting creative for solving problems that I might not think to solve. Did I, had I not given myself this ginormous goal?

Yeah, I like it. I like it. I will talk about goals sometimes as something that provides some direction to us. Yeah. So I’ve used the analogy of sort of long distance open water swimming, when people swim in open water, they have to pick their heads up periodically to find a focal point off in the distance. Otherwise, they swim in circles. Because you don’t have lane line, you don’t in a swimming pool, you have a line paint on the bottom of the pool, and you just follow it. But when you’re swimming in open water, you truly will swim in circles, or at least in a horrible zigzag pattern. If you don’t have the ability to pick your head up periodically and refocus on a point in the distance. Yeah, I like goals as those focal points. So it just gives you a way of picking your head up and saying, Am I moving in the direction that I said I wanted to move? And are my activities aligned with that direction? And if so great. Let’s keep going. I think that’s the way in addition to what you said, I think that’s the way goals can be of service to us. Yeah. But when we use them, more often than not my observation that that goals end up being something that people use as a sort of weapons against themselves . It seems like a lot of times people just trade one kind of suffering for another. When they, when they pursue certain types of goal setting, there’s a book I read a while back that says, the author said something like, I don’t, I never set goals because goals are a recipe for near constant or near permanent disappointment. Because all the while I’m pursuing the goal, if I’ve made the goal mean too much, all the while I’m pursuing it, I feel the lack of not having achieved it. And then I achieve it. And I get to enjoy the feeling of having achieved it for about five minutes. And then I set a new goal. And I’m right back into the lack of, of not having achieved the next goal. So and I don’t, I don’t, I don’t agree completely that, you know, setting goals is sort of this recipe for misery, constant misery. But I do agree with him that when people give their goals too much, meaning they’re at risk of feeling unhappy the majority of the time because they’re either either they’ve they’re pursuing a goal, or they’ve just achieved a goal, and now they have to feel like they have to start a new pursuit. Yeah. And that’s, I don’t think that attitude, that approach to goal setting, actually improves people’s happiness. And I have had plenty of experiences over the last eight and a half years where I’ll be talking to a client. And she’ll have set a goal, and then she’ll have achieved the goal. And she’s barely acknowledged the achievement before she’s talking about the next, the new, the bigger. And she’s right back into the same anxiety that she had, leading up to the achievement of the goal. And I, as I’ve observed that over hundreds of conversations, I thought I don’t, I don’t really want to engage in this same kind of activity. It doesn’t seem like it’s definitely not. There’s no, there’s no appeal to me, as I observe it. I think I don’t find myself thinking, oh, I want the day that they seem to be having, I want the life they seem to be having it doesn’t. I’m not persuaded by it. That’s for sure.

Yeah. Yeah, it sounds like, what you’re describing is when success depends on the achievement of goal, because as long as we’re still pursuing the goal, then we’re not feeling successful. And so if feeling successful depends on the achievement of goal or, like, hardly ever those five minutes you talked about, that’s the only time we’re going to feel successful is for, for the five minutes that we’re celebrating the goal we just achieved before we set the next goal. I was curious about. I mean, you’ve been on this business journey for a long time, a lot longer than a lot of my listeners. And so I was wondering if you might share a little bit of your journey. And you know, what that looked like for you?

Is there a particular aspect of the journey that you’re referring to?

Well, I mean, I guess the business building part of it, I think, a lot of people struggle with, especially, like we talked about when they don’t feel successful. And so I mean, it sounds like you’ve tried a bunch of different things, and you’ve sometimes struggled and other times been super successful. And I think it would be helpful to people to kind of understand the different aspects of the struggle and the success, what might be similar, what might be different between those two. And then you know, what those success factors might have been for you.

You talk about this a lot, especially with kind of newer coaches. I think that many, many people who enter the coaching industry are under the impression that the ability to deliver a coaching experience is sufficient to be able to grow a successful practice or a successful business. And so, they you hear I hear them say things, a lot of things like, I just want to be a great coach. I’m really putting my focus on becoming a better coach. I signing up for another certification, another class. Another thing it’s this constant improvement of the product that they play And to deliver the product being coaching experiences, whether that’s one on one sessions or group experiences, or retreats or memberships, or whatever it happens to be. And so, especially in moments of frustration, you’ll hear them say, in their frustration, I’ll hear them say, I know I’m a great coach. And I will often have to gently stay. I’m sorry that you think that matters. As much as you seem to think it matters, it doesn’t matter that much. It doesn’t matter as much as you want it to matter. What actually matters more, is the ability to meet and persuade new people. In fact, in the coaching, I don’t think this is just coaching. I think therapy is similar, I think, books, I think even writing books, even fiction, I think that these things matter more than the quality of the product itself. And I think that’s hard for a lot of people to hear. And it is just my opinion, people are welcome to disagree, and they can probably give evidence for why I’m wrong. I’m absolutely open to that. My observation has been, the people who have the greatest ability and willingness to meet and persuade new people will be those who have the biggest, most financially successful businesses. So when someone says, I know I’m a great coach, I’ll say, in the long run, I believe that matters a lot, especially if you’re building a one on one practice, that’s driven by relationships and referrals. In the short run, it matters. It’s not going to move the needle for you very quickly. So there’s this basic disconnect, where someone will say, again, because of the coaching community that these sort of reside in, well, what are you trying to do in your business right now? Oh, well, I want to make $50,000 In the next 12 months, I want to make $100,000 In the next 12 months. And in my most honest moments, I’ll say there is not one chance that you will do that. It is it is mathematically, if you were to do it, it’d be it would be math, it would be astonishing. Why? Because you don’t have enough relationships, where people know where people know you and like you and trust you in that specific context, to translate into enough yeses to be 50,000 or $100,000 in earnings. And coaches bless us are like, well, I know, but I’m working really hard on my belief. And I’ll say, Oh, your belief is irrelevant, sorry. Your belief doesn’t matter very much. In the long run, it’s everything in the short run, it doesn’t matter very much. In the short run your belief or your enthusiasm will get to take action. But if it’s propped up on this idea of oh, if I believe that I’ll make $100,000, then you’re going to get quickly disappointed, and you very likely will quit. Yeah. So I absolutely want you to believe but it becomes a question of believe in what what are you believing in? And what are you doing? If you’re a person who has, let’s say, lots of sales experience where you, you have a track record of meeting and persuading people, because that’s what your job required. You absolutely are to at a high, you have a head start over people who don’t have similar experience, independent of whether you’re a good coach, or they’re a good coach. So it doesn’t really, it’s the ability to meet and persuade the matter. So sometimes I’ll meet people who I’ll say, you kind of seem to come out of the gate quickly and your business, you seem to have you know, had results more quickly. What’s your story? And or I won’t even say that, I’ll just see their numbers. And I’ll just say, Tell me about your journey. What do you do before and I hear stories like I was a pharmaceutical sales rep. I built a successful multi-level marketing business or network marketing or whatever, social selling whatever they happen to call, but it’s that built a social, you know, a successful network marketing business. Oh, I’ve been blogging for years, I have quite a big audience through my blog. I’ve been on Instagram for a long time. I have 5000 followers on Instagram. It’s really uncomfortable for people to hear this, because they don’t want it to be true. They don’t want it to be true that anyone has any sort of advantage over anyone else, because they want it to be reducible to belief. If I believe hard enough, if I believe big enough, then I can achieve the same results as the next person. And my answer to that is probably if we’re looking at a long enough time scale, but on a short timescale, I can promise and guarantee you that when someone achieves disproportionate results in a given time period, their first six months their first 12 months, their first 24 months If I promise you, without exception, that I will be able to point to circumstantial factors in that financial result.

I will network, yes, like, I’ll bet my mortgage payment on it, it’s it’s this is you can take this to the bank, there are circumstantial factors either in their skills that have already been built, the relationships that have already been built, sometimes it’s the niche they pick, they guess, right on the niche. And, and, like, they’re just off to the races, yeah. But it can be very uncomfortable for people to acknowledge those things. When what they’ve been told is, if you just believe more belief harder, you’re gonna do exactly what no one else will do. And I always have me there and say, I absolutely agree, depending on the timescale that we’re talking about, right? The longer the time scale, the less of a factor, existing skills, existing network and look, the less of an impact they have. On the longer timescale, the shorter the timescale, the more existing network existing skills, and luck are a factor in a person’s success. The worst thing that happens in our industry is coaching and Coach B, start at the same time. And what they mean by that is, maybe they came out of their coaching certification at the same time. So they’ll say I started my business at the same time, why is she making so much more money than I am? And I like to say, well, you started, you both gave yourself the label of life coach at the same time, but she spent the last 510 15 years developing the skills and the relationships that she could then monetize through this new label of life coach. That’s the difference between you it’s not that either one of you is, you know, doing a particularly great job of thinking correctly, that reject that wholesale, I completely reject it.

So would you talked about, you know, relationships and skills? So are building relationships is that a skill set that people can develop?

It’s the skill set. If you want to be a coach, now, it depends on what business model you’re pursuing.

If you’re well, I do think it’s kind of the ability to develop relationships, I think has a universal application. But especially if you want to build a one on one coaching business, then the ability to meet and form relationships with people will be everything, it will be the reason that sometime in the next five years, you no longer have to do anything that you would have called Marketing. Because your business is self sustaining now through the relationships that you fostered. So I kind of break it down into two two Rs, I have a few hours, but two of the R’s are referrals and renewals. So as your business, find some small amount of traction, you get a paying client, that paying client continues the relationship with you. That’s a renewal. It’s a big factor in every coaching business I’ve ever been inside of. is people saying yes, the second the third the fifth time. And then relationships, or, or I’m sorry, referrals. Referrals is just those people who know you like you and trust you telling other people about you. Well, what drives referrals and renewals? Relationships? Yeah, having a great relationship with the person that’s right in front of you is what’s going to drive your referrals and your renewals. So yeah, relationship building for a coach relationship building is everything. Now, if you want to have a membership, if you want to sell groups, relationship building absolutely still matters. But you have to bring in other skills, other habits, because you need more people and those business models. Yeah, a lot more people, a lot, a lot more people. So your job kind of shifts from being a business that’s essentially about meeting and building a relationship with another individual. And it becomes about how can I meet as many individuals as possible in a shorter timeframe as possible and persuade them all at the same time? And now you’re in a marketing driven business, you’re in a sort of a publishing business, and not so much a relationship business.

Okay. And what do you think? As far as building relationships, what does that skill set center around? Do you think if you had to point to a few factors that that can be developed. Is it just practice or it is, it’s absolutely a practice, it’s a habit. I think the foundation of the practices is not viewing other human beings as transactions. Yeah, if you, sometimes I’ll talk with coaches, and I can tell that they’ve shifted into viewing other humans completely as a transaction. This person is a prospect, this person, I have a console setup with them, I have a follow up, they, they kind of only view people in terms of where they are in their progress toward a credit card swipe. And I think if you’re trying to build a relationship business, then you’re better served to start viewing people as people. And to nurture a relationship with them where they know you care about them. You know, they’re happy to hear from you. And the more of those relationships that you have, the more opportunities there are for someone to think of you in the moment that someone they know. And love is having some sort of pain that you could address. So you, you look past the transaction to the person, and you recognize that in a one on one coaching business, whoever has the most and or best relationships, wins. And by wins, I mean, you I got a text message over the weekend from a person who I had done a couple of coaching sessions with probably a couple of years ago, this person never paid me anything. But we’ve stayed on each other’s radar. I have never sent a follow up message that sounded like, Hey, I would still love to coach you or it. I’ve not taken a transactional approach to this person at all. But I got a voice message from this person over the weekend that said, Hey, Mark, I have a team member. This person is a manager of a team. I have a team member who is a super high performer. She’s really struggling with anxiety and her mindset. And of course, I want to find somebody to help her and you’re the first person that comes to mind. And so that could turn into a coaching a paid coaching relationship. Yeah, I’m not particularly caught up in whether it does or doesn’t, but it could. All right. And I think it started with me not viewing the person who gave the referral transactionally who don’t view him that way. Yeah, have you him as a person that I care about? We come into each other’s worlds, once or twice a year. There’s a small reconnection. And when the opportunity arose for him to say, you need help with that Mark is the person that I think can help you with it. Yeah. That’s the practice the practice is how can I maintain relationships with people who know me so that when the opportunity arises, they refer me. That’s the skill. And once you embrace that, so much of what we’re doing in our businesses kind of starts to fade away. As we realize it’s not absolutely essential, like advertising. It becomes more about how can I maintain a relationship with an individual? Unless about how can I figure out my funnel? Is there just two totally different mindsets?

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Interesting. So, I mean, I guess, where along your journey, did you learn that?

I think it took me working for some of these. It took me working for different types of coaches, observing different types of businesses. And realizing that means that if a person is pursuing a certain type of business, they have to pursue what I call the publishing model of marketing. So the podcasts, the Instagram, even the advertising, their business model kind of requires it. But there’s a I, by the way, I call those businesses training businesses. We put all these businesses under the same heading of coaching. Yeah, those businesses are more training. They’re teaching people how to do things. Yeah. A coaching business is a business that’s built on conversation. It doesn’t have an agenda. It doesn’t have a program. It doesn’t have modules. It’s two people coming together, engaging in an exploration together helping the client discover themselves and helping the client direct themselves. That’s a coaching business. So many of the businesses that we follow are actually training businesses. And they use marketing strategies that use publishing as their primary marketing vehicle. When you have a business that wants to be a coaching business, but is marketing like a training business, there’s a disconnect there, that where people break down, and they’re confused about why am I not succeeding? Well, it’s because you’re trying to grow a training business. That’s what your activity shows, but you claim to want a coaching business. And if you aligned to those, you’d realize, oh, I don’t need to be publishing anything. I need to be nurturing relationships with individuals that will fill a coaching practice. But if I want to have a training business than I do have to be publishing, publishing, publishing, advertising, advertising, advertising. So where did I learn it? I just learned it by watching and seeing. The biggest thing I observed, Gil was we had people with training businesses, who are trying to teach people who wanted coaching businesses. And all they have to offer is, here’s how I’ve grown my training business. And then the person who wants a coaching business eventually finds themselves confused, because they say I keep doing the thing that the person is telling me to do. But I’m not ending up with what I want. Well, they’re telling you how to grow the business they grew. Yeah. Not the business that you want to grow. Yeah. And I just watched it unfolding over the last probably five years. And I realized, this is disconnected. These groups are not understanding each other.

Yeah. Yeah. And I think coaches that are just getting started probably don’t even understand what they truly want, yet, either. So they don’t know what they’re building. So they just try to follow the formula. Without even knowing what they’re following the formula to

100%. Agree, I completely agree. They’re copying. And there’s nothing wrong with copying. Right? All copy? And I’m absolutely in favor of it. Yeah. But they don’t know why they’re copying. Exactly. Yeah, to what end Am I copying. And I think, if we, if we fall, if we really try to avoid the discomfort that comes with not knowing what’s going to happen next. If we hate that discomfort, we will copy in hopes of avoiding that discomfort. So it’s like, okay, if she’s doing X, I’m going to do X, Y, because I want to paint by numbers. So that I don’t have to experience the discomfort of potentially, quote, unquote, failing. But then they paint by numbers. And they don’t achieve the same thing in the same timeframe. And they still end up with the feeling of failure. But they’re not much better off because they made the result, their focus instead of the experiment or the, or the skill development, their focus. So they don’t get to have the feeling of success that would come with those things. All they have is she’s making x dollars. If I’m not making x dollars, in the same amount of time, then clearly something is wrong with me. It’s probably my lack of belief. I’m, I’m just deficient. is wrong and horrible.

Yeah, so talking about, you know, the coaching business versus the training business, you’re getting ready to do an event this fall focused on that, right?

Yeah, I’m hosting a conference called Beautiful Business Conference. And it will give a lot of energy to one on one coaching businesses. I’m not anti anything. I’m not anti membership. I’m not anti group retreat. I’m not anti I’m not anti courses. What I have observed what I think is true about our marketplace, our community is that one on one coaching businesses are too often viewed as stepping stones to other things as sort of what you do until you can do the better thing. Instead of being viewed as an elegant, viable business forever if you choose where you can make amazing amounts of money and enjoy an amazing lifestyle. I am not big and here’s what I think happens, Jill, since the businesses that have the biggest online followings are training businesses. That’s why they have such big online followings. They have to hear from those businesses. We don’t hear from the business owner from the coach who quietly makes an amazing living without a big online presence, because they’re a relationship driven business. Right? So they’re making way more money than the person who’s so desperately trying to grow the podcast, build the email list, grow the social following. But they aren’t talking about it online.

Right? Because they’re not publishing business. They’re not publishing businesses. So we don’t really even know they exist. But I’ve met enough of them now that I know they exist. And I want to do the beautiful Business Conference, because I want to give voice and I want to give some context around the idea that you can have an amazing coaching practice, where you actually if this is what you care about, you earn as much or more than the vast majority of the people trying to grow training businesses. And you do it without so much of the content. hamster wheel. Yeah, if you’re a person who views content as a necessary evil, some people love to publish, and if a person loves to publish, they should start a coaching or training business. Yeah, publish their little hearts out. But if a person says to me, I just want to sit with my clients, and talk with them and help them discover themselves and help them direct themselves. They don’t have to publish anything if they don’t want to. Yeah, but they don’t know that. And the beautiful business conferences designed to help them see a path in that direction.

Yeah, I love that see disruptive? Yeah, because I think this is going to be really good news to some coaches out there, you know, some of the people that, you know, I’ve coached, you know, that’s, that’s the business model they want. And, you know, what they’re hearing is, oh, well, it’s not possible to do that. That’s not scalable. That’s, you know, it’s, yeah, scale, the great lie scale. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. We’ll talk about scale. It’s a Beautiful Business Conference.

Awesome. Well, I’m already signed up, I, it’s, it’s back to back with my retreat this fall. So I am hoping that I’ll still be able to squeeze it in, I’ll still be able to make that trip out to Utah. So how do people learn about the business of Beautiful Business Conference? If they want to go? It’s going to be in Salt Lake City, right? Yeah, it’s gonna be in Salt Lake City planned for September 20th and 21st 2022. Of course, it’s a Tuesday and a Wednesday. And the details, there aren’t a lot of details at this point. But the place where they can reserve their seat, is at https://letsdothebooks.com/conference/. Okay. Well, Let’s Do The Books is my bookkeeping business website. And so https://letsdothebooks.com/conference/, the page where they can sign up for the beautiful Business Conference. And I will definitely put that in the show notes as well. Any last words, this has been really, I love just getting together with coaches and business owners and just just chatting about things that people struggle with and in the online business world. So this has been an amazing conversation, I appreciate your time. Any last words for people.

If I’m to I offer any advice, it would be to try to understand what business you’re actually in. And then try to become a master of that business. So if you are pursuing what I would call a training business, where you show people the how, then by all means, be an amazing publisher, go that route, go for it, you can create an amazing business. Those are amazing. They can be amazing businesses. If you truly are passionate about sitting with another human being one on one, then do the work of figuring out what’s involved in that business. And commit yourself to that. It’s a business that’s much more about self development, and relationship building. It’s actually to be honest, you’ll see all the stuff I’ve seen in business over the last 15 years that I’ve been doing different entrepreneurial things I’ve yet to come across a simpler, more elegant way to make a really amazing living than a one on one coaching practice. So I just want people to at least consider that.

Yeah, at least have that option. Yeah. So training business. Get really good at teaching people how coaching business get really good at meeting people and building relationships. I love it. It’s so simple.

Yeah, it is.

I’m all about simple. Thanks so much, Mark, I appreciate you having this conversation with me. And I look forward to seeing you in the fall.

Thank you so much for having me, Jill. I can’t wait to see you as well.

I found so many good parts of this conversation. So many good little nuggets to take away. But I would love to know what was your biggest takeaway? share yours and leave a review for me about easy money. Thanks for being here. I’ll be back soon with the next conversation with coaches on EASY MONEY. Love what you heard today, there’s more where that came from. Just head on over to https://jillwrightcoaching.com/ and get your free and Simple Financial Freedom guide. Stop worrying about money. Stop trying to manage your time. Instead create ease and freedom in your business. It’s the first step to making money easier. And don’t forget to subscribe so you don’t miss next week’s episode. See you then.